How to use money as a tool for financial change with Kara Pérez
What if your everyday money choices could actually change the world? Meet Kara Pérez, founder of Bravely Go and author of "Money for Change," who proves that aligning your finances with your values doesn't mean sacrificing your financial goals.
From $20,000 in student loans to building a business around values-based financial education, Kara shares how she paid off debt in 10 months and discovered the hidden power behind where we put our money.
This conversation challenges everything you think you know about "good" financial advice. Kara explains why 70% of the US economy runs on consumer spending, how to spot financial greenwashing, and why your bank choice is more powerful than you realize.
Episode Timestamps:
[03:00] Kara's origin story: the I-35 breakdown that changed everything
[07:00] How she paid off $18,000 in student loans in 10 months (with creative side hustles)
[12:00] What sustainability-focused financial education actually looks like
[16:00] Why naming systems (not just symptoms) matters in personal finance
[21:00] Why the big four banks are funding what you're fighting against
[25:00] How overconsumption is designed to keep you spending
[32:00] Simple steps to align your money with your values (starting with banks)
[37:00] Financial greenwashing: how to spot fake eco-friendly marketing
[47:00] Planning for the future when you're intentionally child-free
[52:00] Getting started with ethical investing (it's not about perfection)
Connect with Kara:
Website: bravelygo.co
Socials: @webravelygo
YouTube: @bravelygo
Book: Money for Change
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Transcript
Emily: Hey, girlies. Today we're chatting with Kara Pérez, founder of Bravely Go, a [00:01:00] sustainability-focused financial education company. Kara is all about making financial education accessible and intersectional, especially for folks who have never learned the language of money. She's the author of Money for Change and has been featured everywhere from the New York Times to Good Morning America as a financial expert.
What we're most excited about is her unique approach to looking at money through the lens of community and environmentalism, helping people create values-based budgets and use money as a tool for actual change.
Cassidy: Kara, before we dive in, I want to take you all the way back to September 2021, when FinCon was held in Austin, Texas, because you hosted a breakout session titled “NPR Glamour and ABC News,” and what you may not know is that I was in that audience along with, yeah, along with one of mine and Emily's good friends, Hillary Gale, who is also a copywriter in the finance space.
And yeah, I [00:02:00] remember Hillary and I loved your session so much. We loved your energy, your perspective on personal finance. You walked in your, like, hundred-dollar bill dress, which is so iconic.
And yeah, you just seemed so cool and I instantly followed you on all the things and have followed you on all the things ever since. And so whenever you signed up to do this podcast interview, I was like, holy crap. We have a celebrity in our presence.
Kara: Oh my God. That is so amazing. I can't believe you were there. I do still have that money dress. I am, I'm so thrilled to hear that. I hope it was helpful and I'm so glad to be, you know, meeting you in more detail now.
Cassidy: Yeah. It feels like a full circle moment.
Kara: It does. Yeah. That's wild. Ugh, the world, you know, it's a magical place.
Cassidy: I know, I know. Okay, so to kick things off, we wanted to hear more about your origin story with [00:03:00] money. Was there a moment that made you think, I need to figure this out and do it differently?
Kara: 100%. And it actually happened in Austin, Texas. So the year is 2014. I am, like, 25 years old, and I'm working part-time as a caterer and part-time as a lacrosse coach. And the lacrosse coaching is just seasonal 'cause it's high school lacrosse. So it's just like three months of the year and the rest of the year I'm just working as a caterer. And I'm on my way down I-35, which is this highway that cuts right down the middle of Austin, Texas and it's a thousand degrees outside 'cause it's in the summer. And I just burst into tears in the car. Like I'm just sitting there, I'm barely paying attention to the road. It's very unsafe driving. All I'm thinking about is how miserable my life is and how much student loan debt I have and how broke I am. And I just start crying in the car.
And that was my like, oh, okay.[00:04:00] You know, like money has reached a very unhealthy place for you. You are not doing well, girl. Like mentally you're not, you're not sticking the landing. And like something needs to change. And at the time I had about $20,000 left in student loans. Um, I was a couple years out from graduating. I graduated in 2011, and my income was just crazy low. Like, some months I was only making $800. And I had rent to pay. I did not get any support from family. I was fully living on my own, like paying for all of my housing, paying for all of my food, healthcare, like all of it. And so that was the moment of like, girl, something has to change. Like, very much so, a lightbulb going off of money's a problem, then the next light bulb, like, but how does one money? Like—
Emily: Once you had that like, moment of reckoning, like this, something needs to change, like what were those first steps that you took?
Kara: Yeah, so for [00:05:00] me, it was my student loan debt. I mean, so to take it further back a little bit, you know, the year is 1988, I'm born in Massachusetts. And then two years later, um, my parents broke up, um, and separated and got divorced and my mom became a single mom. I have two siblings, and we were very, very, very low income.
I grew up on food stamps, which is now the SNAP program. And if not for community support and family support, like, it would've been very dark times for my family. Instead, it was just sort of dark times for my family.
But still to this day, my mom will tell you that, like, she doesn't know anything about money and she doesn't like to budget. And then I'm the only one of my siblings to go to college, from which I graduated with student loans and a degree in English in 2011. You know, post-great recession where everyone was like, STEM, STEM, if not STEM, why? You know, like people did not wanna hire me. So I'm 37 now. I've never had a full-time salaried position ever. Like I've never [00:06:00] had a 401(k). I've never had employer-sponsored healthcare, ever. So my financial life has always felt very fragmented.
And after college, I had these student loans. You get that six month grace period and then they're like, pay up. And on my like $800 to $1,500 a month salary, my $400 a month student loan payment dominated my money, right? Like it was the second biggest bill that I had outside of rent, which was $500. So that was all I could think about from the ages of 23 to 25, was my student loans, my student loans, my student loans are ruining my life. They're dominating my money. If I can just pay off my student loans, my life will be better. Like that was the extent of my financial awakening in that car. Just if I can pay off my student loans, my life will be better. I was not thinking about, like, financial independence. I was not thinking about money management or budgeting or anything like that. I was just like, the debt has gotta go.
And so [00:07:00] my next step, I think naturally I'm a person with a lot of energy and I love a challenge. I'm an Aries, I'm the eldest daughter, you know, I'm like, okay, I will take you down. I can do this.
So the, the most logical step to me was, okay, you need to earn more money. Like, you don't have enough money that cutting back will make any meaningful difference. You need to earn more money. So I applied, I mean I had been applying, I ramped up my applications for full-time jobs, but I was like, I can't wait around for a full-time job to hire me at like $60,000 a year. And that will be so much money. Like I have to do something immediately.
So I just kind of put the word out among my friends. I got on Facebook, I got on Craigslist, I just got on the internet and found anything that would pay literally anything that would pay me money. I was like, I'll do that. So like one of my friends was working on a movie and he was like, oh, the, the costume designer needs a nanny for like two weeks. I was like, I'll do that. I once made 150 bucks in cash waiting in [00:08:00] line for someone overnight. 'Cause he wanted to buy a specific poster and he was like, well, I don't wanna be out there at 3:00 AM And I was like, I can be out there at 3:00 AM. Don't even worry about it buddy.
Emily: Wow.
Kara: I cobbled together all of these part-time jobs, culminating in working as a, I worked as a caterer, I kept the coaching job. I drove a van for the high school, uh, golf team. Because they needed to do, needed to be transported from school to the golf course. I started working as a, a freelance social media person, like manager, for a couple of local companies. And I started working as a receptionist at a gym at like 5:15 in the morning.
And then I got a job as a fundraiser for a local nonprofit. So I just, anything that paid, I was like, I will do it. And so my income went, and I share my tax information pretty freely on the internet, honestly. But, so in 2012, I think I made, I may get my years a little mixed up here. I think I made like, [00:09:00] $13,000. And then in 2014 I made something like $16,000 for the year. And then 2015 I made like $22,000. I was like, oh my God, here we go baby. And then 2016 I made like 30 grand. You know, it, it kept creeping up by these small amounts, but enough that if I had kept my living costs low, which I did, I was ruthless with my spending. I mean, I spent almost nothing. I lived off catering leftovers. It was bare bones living, that I was able to funnel this extra money towards my student loans. And so I paid off my last $18,000 in student loan debt, in 10 months.
And then I was like, I'm amazing. Oh wait, like now that I don't have any debt, that's great. But I don't actually have any money. I simply no longer owe Sally Mae money, but what now?
And then that was when I got [00:10:00] into, oh, I could save money, I could learn what the stock market is. And that hit me really hard and in a really exciting way. And that's when I began to think long term about financial health, financial stability, financial independence.
Um, and from there, we've just been rocking and rolling ever since.
Cassidy: Yeah.
Emily: There are so many parallels between yours and Cassidy's stories. Cassidy, were you thinking the same thing?
Cassidy: Yeah, I was, um, yeah, I was the first person in my family to go to college. Grew up lower income family, and also paid off $18,000 of student loan debt in 10 months.
Kara: What? Wait that's crazy. Our numbers are the same.
Cassidy: Yeah. Yeah. And I was an academic advisor making $32,000 a year, which I, I was married at the time, so I did have the benefit of a little bit of a dual income, but he was a low income, you know, low-ish salary as well. So we were, [00:11:00] we were scraping by. I entered my frugal era, you know, just trying to wash my hair with baking soda —
Kara: Yeah!
Cassidy: So I didn't have to pay for shampoo. Just all the things like that.
Kara: I went through that phase.
Cassidy: Yeah. Did it work for you? Because it did not work for me.
Kara: No, the like, baking soda and then the apple vinegar, apple cider vinegar rinse never worked. So I hope it worked for other people.
Cassidy: That was also in my shower.
Kara: Oh my God, I love that. Um, yes, we love a low-income lover boy. When I started dating my partner, we've been together 11 years. He was making $24,000 a year and I was like, oh, big money, because I was making $16k was like, look at this guy.
Cassidy: Also, everything is relative because that is big money when you're making $16k.
Kara: Right. It was almost 10 grand more than me. I was like, ah. But he had nearly $70,000 in student loan debt, so you know, everything is relative. He was like, you basically have no debt. And I was like, oh my God.
Cassidy: Yeah. So [00:12:00] true.
Emily: Okay. Can you now tell us about Bravely Go and specifically what, like, sustainability-focused financial education looks like in practice?
Kara: Yeah. So I started my business Bravely Go in 2016 basically after, so during my like, extreme debt payoff, my debt sprint, I blogged about it. Because blogs were all the rage back then and I was an English major and loved writing. And I connected with a lot of people in the world of personal finance and really loved the community and got very obsessed with it. And so like at my catering jobs, I would be like, hey, do you guys know about like, high-yield savings accounts? Does anyone here invest? Are you guys paying off your debt? And money really just became this, this big passion of mine and personal finance education became a big passion.
So after I paid off my debt, my blog was doing fairly well and people in my immediate life and like, in Austin were beginning to know me as the money girl [00:13:00] because at the time in Austin, there were all of these free events that were really focused on women and like women in business. And I would just go to them even though I didn't have a business per se yet, but I wanted to meet other women, very pro-feminist. And so. I just kind of began to develop this reputation and people started asking me like, can you help me with my money? Can you help me with my money? Can you coach me? And I was like, no, no, I'm not really qualified to do that. Like, I don't wanna do that.
And then I was like, wait a second. Yeah, I can do that. Like, so that's how Bravely Go as my financial education business started. The blog grew into coaching, grew into doing events pre-COVID. And the sustainability aspect of it, I've really started embracing in recent years, I've always been someone who lives very sustainably. I was obsessed with the Amazon as a kid. I was like, oh my God, the Amazon is being deforested. Like the toucans, I got very into toucans in elementary school. I was [00:14:00] very into recycling and, and just, sustainable living practices that aren't directly tied to your money for most of my life.
And then a couple of years ago, in the early 2020s, I was like, wait a second. This is so tied up in money because capitalism, right? Like, everything about our greater economic system impacts our day-to-day lives. So where we put our money therefore impacts the greater economic system. It's like a one in, one out, you know, to an extent. And that meant that like, if you're investing in the stock market, you can invest in fossil fuels.
Okay, so, but fossil fuels are driving climate change. So if I wanna live sustainably, actually taking my money out of fossil fuels is a really good idea. So in 2022, I divested from fossil fuels in the stock market, but I'm still investing. I just don't invest in like, Exxon Shell, etc. etc. And that to me is what [00:15:00] sustainability-focused financial education is.
And that's what I help people with now. Yes, there are the small, day-to-day living decisions you can make, like using a reusable cup, using a reusable bag. Those are sustainable living decisions that can have impacts on your money because you're buying fewer things ultimately, but thinking bigger, how can you use your money as a tool for change in the world and specifically for environmentally friendly decisions?
So that's what I, I help people do now. Divesting is a big part of it, but also community building is a big part of it. Trying to live more simply, trying to be more mindful of shopping locally or supporting like black-owned, women-owned, and really seeing your, your money, your income as a tool that you can exercise to create the type of world that you want.
Cassidy: That's so beautiful.
One thing we love about your work, especially in your book, Money for Change, is that you name the systems, not just the symptoms. So why is it so important to call out capitalism, fossil fuels, and corporate influence and personal finance, and how does that shift the advice that you give?
Kara: You know, I love this question because I feel like so few people in the personal finance space engage with it. A lot of people are like, no, money is simple. Like pay off debt, open a bank account, put savings in it, and invest in the S&P 500. And it's like, right. But let's think a little bit more critically about all of this, because a lot of the problems that we're all dealing with, at least here in the U.S., all trace back to like government decisions and [00:17:00] corporate practices. And 70% of the US economy is consumer spending. So that is literally our money at work, which means that we as individuals, it's so easy to feel powerless and like you have nothing going on. But 70% of the biggest economy in the world is dependent on our dollars. So that means we're actually quite powerful and the more mindful we are with our money and the more we understand, hey, this company is doing shady things, this company is doing good things, this company's fairly neutral, the more we understand who to support.
And so recently on my Instagram, like I said, this was so funny, the reaction to this was so funny. I was talking about high-yield savings accounts and should I explain that for listeners or do you think they know what a high-yield savings account is?
Cassidy: Give ‘em a rundown. Emily and I are also, we love high-yield savings accounts and have done an entire episode on it, but for the person who hasn't heard that episode, take it away, Kara.
Kara: Okay, so a high-yield savings [00:18:00] account or an HYSA is a savings account that pays you currently 3% or more in interest annually. So if you go to like, Chase, Bank of America, Citibank, the big banks, and you look at their savings accounts, you'll see it says like 0.01%, APY, annual, uh, percent yield. And a high yield savings account is gonna give you 3%, 3.5%, 4%, and so your money's actually making money.
I posted about sort of like, you know, here are the basic money steps that you should be doing, paying off high interest debt, putting your money in a high yield savings account. One company that you see commonly recommended is SoFi. I wouldn't use SoFi because they as a company lobby against student loan forgiveness, but they pay a lot of influencers. And so that's why you see a lot of influencers recommending it. And then like, next slide, you know, is like, invest in the stock market. And I didn't think too much about that. I must have gotten [00:19:00] like 50 DMs from people being like, thank you for calling out SoFi, and thank you for calling out the influencers who use them.
And I was like, oh, interestingly I didn't see that as a call out. And I fundamentally, as a creator myself, I have no problem with creators getting paid. And if you use a product and you recommend it and you get paid for that, like I don't have an issue with that. But when we're thinking about where we keep our money, SoFi is a bank that is actively lobbying against the financial health of millions of Americans by lobbying against student loan forgiveness.
Which, student loan forgiveness is one of the simplest economic actions we could take that would have a huge, that would boost the economy, simply put, because it puts more money back in people's pockets that they can spend at places like Target and Amazon, right?
Emily: Mm-hmm.
Kara: Um, so, like, if people don't know that companies are lobbying for things or against things, they don't know if they're, you know, quote, good or bad companies.[00:20:00]
So it's, I do think really important for us as financial educators to bring some of that to the table and it can, like, this was just an example in one Instagram story, but it clearly resonated with people. I think people are very hungry for this information, especially as we see more and more kind of, like, divisiveness come out of the top of American politics and come out of corporate America. But like, people really wanna put their money at companies that align with their values. And that's not to say everyone has the same values, but what's important to us, we want to express financially. That is a huge part of American culture, is spending money. And so as financial educators, I like to bring that to the table and say, you know, like, here's how I invest as an environmentalist. Here's how you can do the same thing. And I think it really is on us to act as kind of like interpreters for our audience.
Cassidy: This is a little bit of a side tangent, but I, correct me if I'm [00:21:00] wrong, I do believe you have also encouraged people not only to get their money out of like, the big four banks like Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo for the purpose of like, earning more money on your money, that's like a, a great benefit in and of itself, but also because a lot of those major corporations are the ones that are investing in fossil fuels as well.
Kara: Yes. I talk about that in my book and I have talked about that on social media, and it's just like, again, you know, if the big problem in all of our lives is like housing is too expensive, or like, climate change is destroying the planet, why would we put more money into the companies that are perpetuating those problems?
That's what it fundamentally comes down to for me.
Emily: Yeah. I think when you get to the point where your bills are being paid, your debt isn't running your life, you have like, a little bit more financial breathing room, it's like, maybe natural to start kind of thinking about those things. At least like that's been my experience where you kind of get to a point where you're [00:22:00] like, okay, now that I am taken care of, like what can my money do? So I think you're right. It does feel like if educators or planners or whoever aren't talking about that side of things, it just feels like a really big missing piece I think.
Cassidy: Yeah. Someone asked me the other day, like how, I told them we had this podcast episode coming up, it was just a friend, and I was trying to describe you to them, and I was like, I feel like you're filling this massive gap in the personal finance space that like literally no one is talking about.
Kara: Thanks. I, I think so too. I think it's hard and I, I empathize with my fellow creators because, basically personal finance educators and personal finance creators are explaining a really messed up system to people, and the more you explain it, the more apparent the messed up-ness becomes. But there's very little that, that like, Instagram post can [00:23:00] do on its own, right? Like, systemic change comes from massive social movements and changing legislation, which is not necessarily what someone who wants to explain high-yield savings accounts, is doing. So I, I empathize with people who like, don't address it, but I also think that if you don't address it, you're just perpetuating these systems and you're not even giving your audience the, the full picture.
Like, it's one thing if I explain to you, hey, these big four banks are investing in like, fracking in West Texas and like, deep sea oil mining and they're messing up these ecosystems and they're contributing to climate change at this really rapid rate. And you're like, I don't care. That's very different from, I didn't know. Um, you're allowed to not care. That's okay. But if you don't even have the information, like how can you make the better choice?
Emily: Speaking of your book, Money for Change, what kind of inspired you to write it? I mean, I know [00:24:00] you were an English major, so maybe that had something to do with it, but what were you hoping to accomplish with that book and what kind of mindset shift do you hope it sparks in your readers?
Kara: I think the biggest mindset shift I would love to see people take away from my book is, money is not an inherently individualistic thing. I think that's another big problem in the personal finance space. It's all about like, here's how you can get rich. You know, here's how you can pay off debt. And there's very little we, but I think that's so wrong because life is about the, we, humans are about the we, humans are social creatures. We form groups. That is our main thing. Like, literally, we use isolation as a form of punishment and torture, right? So why would money be the only thing in our lives that we have to be secretive about or that we have to hoard for ourselves and not share with others? Right? [00:25:00]
So what I wanted to write the book for was to say, like, hey, I'm a person who's really passionate about financial education and I'm really passionate about all of us succeeding. I always say, like, I don't wanna get to the top of the mountain, look around, and realize I'm alone. I wanna party at the top of the mountain with my friends and family, right? And I want everybody to be financially secure. So let's talk about money in a way that centers the planet that we live on and community building.
And that's what my book really tries to do. So in it, there's a lot of stories that I share of people who are doing things like instead of paying for childcare, they created a childcare co-op where parents in the co-op could get childcare for free. There was no exchange of money, which is such a wonderful community-centered way of approaching this huge crisis in the [00:26:00] United States. You're always hearing about the childcare crisis and how expensive childcare is.
But here was this group of people that were able to use their connection with others to meet a need without money. And similarly, there's stories in the book of people who are um, like, doing everything from helping people to plant front yard gardens, you know, to forming legislative groups to lobby for protective and like, transparent laws around the environment and money.
So I really would love for people to read the book. Um, you can request it at your library. I would love it if you buy a copy, um, and really begin to think of money, as I've said a couple times now as a tool for change, but also as something that benefits everybody in their life and not just them.
Cassidy: For someone who is listening and they're like, okay, I think I really want to use my money as a tool for change, hint, I'm one of those people, as you talk, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:27:00] Are there any other like, concrete examples you can give for using your money as a tool for change? For someone who's like, maybe just starting, they're like, I would love to do a co-op, but like, that's probably far into my future.
Like, what are some of those smaller initial steps?
Kara: Yeah, totally. The, the co-op dream, keep it alive. It is a little bit more work, um, but I think the easiest way for anyone who's looking for using their money as a tool for change, I'd say there's two things you could do. One is take your money out of the big four banks. So just to clarify, that's Bank of America, um, Chase, Citi, and Wells Fargo, because they’re garbage, and they treat you like garbage. I mean, Wells Fargo has been sued literally hundreds of times for terrible customer service, for opening fake accounts in people's names, for just treating the people who use their bank like garbage. So why would you wanna go there? And they have those low interest rates, right? So like, no one likes them.
Take your money out of them and put them either in a local credit union or a local community [00:28:00] bank because that is going to keep your money hyperlocal, which means you're helping employ people in your community while saving, investing, right? And like having a checking and savings account. So that's a super duper simple way, it takes probably 15 minutes to close a bank account and maybe like 20 to 30 minutes to open a bank account depending on which credit union you go with. So we're talking about less than an hour of your time. And that is the single biggest change you can make to start your journey there.
But I would also say find a local business and try to spend money there once a month. So like, I'm a devoted Aldi girly. I, that's where I do all my grocery shopping. I'm there every single week. I love Aldi. And you can pry Aldi from my cold, dead hands, you know, I love it. However, I do strive in the summer to go at least once a month to a local farmer's market, and to buy some [00:29:00] produce or some like, whatever at a farmer's market. So that way, again, my money is staying local and it's not going to support the giant corporation, Aldi, it's going to support like, Susie, 30 miles down the road.
So those are the two things, and I understand that buying local, like your mileage may vary in what's available to you or the prices, but if you just try to do it once per month, so maybe once, you know you're buying one Christmas gift locally and the rest you get at Target or whatever, if you're buying meat locally once a month, if you are going down to the local hardware store instead of Lowe's, like just once a month, it's the practice of, wait a second, where am I actually sending my money? Am I defaulting into whoever emails me the most, you know, or like, whoever's ads I see the most? Or am I being intentional and putting that money in the community where I live?
Emily: This reminds me of an episode we did in March [00:30:00] or April, where for an entire month we each kind of designed a shopping challenge for ourselves. So Cassidy gave up Amazon for a month and for context before that month, she had a lot of Amazon orders racked up for the year, we'll just say.
And my challenge was, any discretionary spending had to be as local as possible. And it totally, like, changed the way I thought about my spending, like, just for one month. And it was challenging. Like, there were a few times I screwed up, but overall it just was a really interesting experiment and a lot of the changes I made, I think during that month, or like places I ended up shopping or things I ended up purchasing, like I would totally do again, like it, I could see that becoming a habit.
Kara: Yeah, I think, it's interesting in today's like, online world, I feel like a lot of people are really desperate for guidance and they feel like everything needs to [00:31:00] be like a six step plan. I think that the kind of like, self-help, you know, here are the three things you need to do to be happier and healthier, or whatever. That kind of mindset has really trickled down into our everyday decision making process. And I always tell people like, you can, it's so simple. Just a Google search, local hardware store, Boise, Idaho, you know, like, and four things are gonna pop up and you can just pick one and go there. Like do not over complicate it for yourself, especially at the beginning.
And also as it comes to like sustainable living or sustainable money. You don't have to do everything at once. I think a lot of people, once they begin their sustainable journey, they're like, oh my God, look at all these red flag areas, or look at all these things I'm quote unquote, doing wrong, I have to change everything.
No, you do not. Okay. I've been at this a long time and there are still things that I have yet to change, and that's okay. It's gonna be a lifelong journey for me. Just pick one and get started, [00:32:00] and as you have the time and the energy and the knowhow, you can change more things in the future.
Emily: I saw a post on your Instagram that said, Americans are being priced out of necessities and oversold low-quality garbage. And that might have just been a snippet of it, but I think about this all the time. Um, and so I just wanted to talk a little bit about overconsumption. I know you brought it up earlier, but speaking of like, Temu, that's what it's called, right? Temu, Amazon, fast fashion, just like cheap junk that falls apart, what does this do to our wallets and to just like our wellbeing as a whole? It's a big question, but —
Kara: Yeah, I also think about this all the time because particularly you can see, so again, I'm 37 and I can go to like, my aunts’ houses, who are in their fifties and sixties, and their furniture that they've had for 20, 30 years, [00:33:00] is real wood. And my furniture is particle board. You know, like, you can see the decline in quality everywhere in our life, and that leads to people having to buy more because things break more often.
And you can also see that, so zooming out again, like a lot of American systems work really poorly, you know, like for example, we have a train system in the United States. It's called the Amtrak. It sucks mostly, like it's really expensive. It's slow and it doesn't go that many places. I live on the East coast, we have the best train system in the country on the East coast. For me to get from Boston to New York could easily cost $300 and take six hours. And it's like, what? Like this is not that far.
So what does that mean if the systems aren't very good, people have to figure things out on their own. So like, if the train system sucks, people have to buy cars. Okay, [00:34:00] well, cars are a depreciating asset and they get worse over time. So if you're a car company, you want people to buy more cars, so you're incentivized to make something that doesn't last as long. And I feel like that's something brands woke up to in like the mid-nineties, because back in the day, you know, and you can see this when you watch TV, even something like The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, like a big part of that show is, Midge's fashion, right? And she's wearing, they're talking about it, right? Like, this is a hundred percent wool. It's too hot for that. You know, like, this is real silk from whoozie-whatsit 'cause Midge is kind of a, a fancy fashion lady. And it's like, they're not even making that much real silk clothing anymore, let alone at an affordable price point.
So to come back to your question of what is this doing to our wallets, the low quality of everything is forcing us to become hyper consumers because things are breaking. [00:35:00] And the less control that we have over systems, the more people crave control over their personal lives. And shopping is a really easy way to feel in control, and it's a really easy way to get a dopamine hit. So if you're feel, like you see it all the time, people talk about retail therapy. People talk about like, oh, I'm so stressed out about politics, or I'm so stressed out about like, my kids' school, like, I'm gonna treat myself to JC Penney. You know, I'm gonna treat myself to TJ Maxx. I'm gonna treat myself by spending money. We're like losing the ability to feel good without spending money because there is such an abundance of low priced, poorly made garbage out there.
Cassidy: Yeah, this was me in college, specifically. This is, this was my moment when I woke up to what was happening, like what I was doing. But in college, of course, you're like, stressed about exams, you know, got midterms coming up, you didn't get the grade you wanted, whatever. And I would just like go walk the aisles of TJ Maxx and be like, let me find something for [00:36:00] $10. Like, let me get a snack. And then once, that's around the time I started becoming more interested in personal finance and I was like, whoa, Cassidy, you are using this as a coping mechanism.
Kara: Yeah. I've been there. It was Target for me. Like Target is so like, clean, it's well lit. I love the way it's organized. They put those, you know, bargain bins right at the front. You know, you're like, oh my God, this is so cute and it's only a dollar. Like, of course I'll buy it. Ooh, it got me good. I used to spend so much money I did not have at Target.
Cassidy: Yeah. Yeah. I was not fortunate enough to live in a town big enough for a Target, which is why I defaulted to TJ Maxx. But boy, my wallet is probably grateful in hindsight 'cause who knows? Who knows?
But on the flip side of all of this is financial greenwashing, where sometimes like, we're trying to be better with our spending and we're trying to put our dollars in good places and we get tricked. So what are some common signs that we can look out for to make sure that we're not falling [00:37:00] for fake eco-friendly marketing?
Kara: Yeah, it's such a good question because it's everywhere. Greenwashing is everywhere. So, the number one thing that you can look for on like, physical things you're buying, so like, organic coffee, you know, or you know, organic clothing, or sustainably made clothing, is what are they actually saying on the tag or on the packaging?
Because a lot of greenwashing is quite literally just the color green because our brains associate that with nature. And so if you see something with green or blue packaging, you are pre-programmed to think like, oh, that looks like a tree in water. That must be environmentally friendly.
Um, or sometimes they'll use the words like, “natural,” and that makes us think that this is better somehow. But look at the container a little bit more. Like when they say natural flavor, are they saying like, natural flavor from where, right? Like is [00:38:00] there any more information? Is there a third party? Like, is it stamped as fair trade or locally grown or something like that? Or are they just kind of using the image of a leaf and the word natural and that's it? So basically, how are they backing up the claim on their packaging? That's just step one.
Step two, there's a lot of, like, third party apps and organizations that do a lot of this research for you. So like there's Good On You. There are a lot of apps and there are many lists on the internet that will tell you like, this is actually clean skincare. This is actually like, fair labor practices in the, um, clothing industry, etc. etc.
But I would use those 'cause people have already asked these questions. The great thing about living in the age of the internet is there really is such an abundance of research and organized lists that you can go to.
Like you don't have to do all of the research on your own.
Emily: You've lived in a few regions of the U.S, am I right? is, then, is there [00:39:00] anything that surprised you about, like how money, cost of living, or sustainability show up differently depending on where you live?
Kara: Yes, definitely. So I grew up in Massachusetts, went to college in Connecticut, lived in Austin, Texas for 11 years. Lived in Charlotte, North Carolina for 15 months, and now I'm back in Massachusetts. And they're all very different. Well, Connecticut, Massachusetts are basically the same.
Um, but I would say I've lived in three distinct regions and, like, Austin commonly referred to as like, the blue dot in the red sea, right? And so Austin as a city has a lot of like sustainability initiatives, but Texas as a whole doesn't. So my partner is a Texan and we met in Austin, but his family lives in a small town of about 13,000 people. And they didn't start recycling as a municipality until like 2013, whereas I grew up in Massachusetts, we always had recycling.
Um, [00:40:00] so there's big differences in likes available systems, but also what I particularly noticed in my time in Texas versus my time in Massachusetts is that Texans tend to think of themselves as very connected to the land because of the history of ranching, um, of like farming, a lot of food production happens in Texas. Um, it's the second biggest food production state after California. So there's a ton of farming. My partner's father grew up on a farm, like, was a farmer, and there's a lot of ranching, which is just time spent out in the fields, like with your cattle, and that's a lot of people's very recent family history.
On top of that, hunting is a very big pastime for a lot of Texans, so they're out there. Hunting is just sitting around in the woods until you shoot something, like, that’s really what it is. It's a, a sport or like a hobby for people who are very patient. [00:41:00] And so there is this mindset of being connected to the land that I don't feel is as prevalent in the Northeast. Yet at the same time, there's very little public land in Texas. I think only 3% of the land in Texas, which is a huge state, is publicly owned. The rest is privately owned. So there's this sense of like, I want wild spaces for myself, for my family. And if you come to my ranch, I'm gonna mess you up, basically. Versus in Massachusetts, 50% of Massachusetts is public land, 50% of the state is public land. But there's definitely not quite as much this mindset of like, like, I don't know anyone who hunts in Massachusetts. You know, I don't know anyone, I know a lot of people who hike as a day trip out of Boston, but I wouldn't say there's this like, family connection, this sort of like, this is my [00:42:00] land the same way up in the Northeast as there is in Texas anyway.
And I think that's a really big difference around sustainability choices because in Texas they look at it as, if you decide to live sustainability, it's a personal choice. And up in Massachusetts, it's much more like, let's use the government to protect land. Let's use the government to create recycling systems. Let's use the government as a tool for sustainability. And in the South, that is seen as like, any government intervention is seen as like, an imposition on an individual's freedom.
Cassidy: I grew up in South Georgia, so I can very much relate to your parallel between Texas and then I lived in Seattle for six and a half years, so like, it resonates.
Kara: Yeah. Yes. It's, it was so fascinating to me. And then going to, to North Carolina, which I would say like, Texas is Texas, it's the Southwest, but it's also historically Mexico. And it's, it's its own thing. It really, really is. Whereas North [00:43:00] Carolina is the south, like that really shocked me at how, how different it was. 'Cause I was like, oh, I got this, you know, like, 11 years in Texas. I'm prepared. I was not prepared.
And that's not necessarily, I'm not, it might sound like I'm, that's a negative thing. I just couldn't believe the mindset difference between Massachusetts, Texas, and North Carolina. Like, we're blessed in many ways to live in a country that has such distinct pockets of culture and such distinct viewpoints. I think that's such a wonderful thing about the United States. It makes it hard to get stuff done at the national level, but I think that's a really cool thing about our country.
Emily: That also reminds me, I lived for several years in the one little blue town in the state of Wyoming, and very similar like, uh, very deep connection with nature, with the land and like from both sides, you know, like, lots of conservation [00:44:00] efforts, but also lots of ranching and hunting and like, it was so interesting to like see how those two different cultures collided just in the, in the context of sustainability because ultimately, like, both parties kind of want the same thing.
But yeah, it was just fascinating.
Cassidy: A lot of our listeners, like Emily and I, care about the planet, care about people, and want to shop in a way that reflects those values, but they also want to be smart with their money. So how do you personally navigate the balance or tension between being intentional with your dollars and still hitting your financial goals?
And I really liked the example you already gave of like, picking one place per month in your local community, whether it's buying meat locally, going to the farmer's market, whatever. Um, are there any other things that come to mind?
Kara: I think just really understanding that being intentional is not at odds with financial stability and security. I think.[00:45:00] unfortunately, there has been this mindset of like, sustainability is for the elites, or sustainability is expensive. So if you're choosing to be sustainable, you are rejecting financial growth.
Um, and that's just not true. The most sustainable choice you can make in any area of your life is to use what you already have, right? To like, like all of my drinking glasses are pasta sauce jars. You know, like I've never bought drinkware in my life, and that is a money saving choice that's also sustainable.
I'm using a jar that has already been manufactured as a water vehicle and I can use that for all of time. So as you're doing your shopping and saving, understand that it's not an either or, It's a yes, and.
Emily: You've said before that you're intentionally child-free, and I know that I think our generation is kind of more open to that idea. And neither Cassidy nor I have kids, so we can't speak from that point of view. [00:46:00] But you've talked about what it means to financially plan for your golden years when you're not planning on having kids, and not a lot of people talk about that. So can you kind of walk us through like how you've thought about that, what it looks like?
Kara: Yeah, I think a lot of people still today think if you have kids, they'll take care of you in your old age. Like, that is a lot of people's retirement plans on top of saving and investing. But they're like, my kids will be there. And unfortunately that is not true. Like, the data does not bear that out. Most elderly Americans live in an assisted living and don't receive visitors. It's actually like, really heartbreaking, uh, when you think about it.
And so, to all people, regardless of whether or not they have kids, I say that you need to take a couple of steps to prepare your finances and yourself for your future. The first being investing, um, you're always gonna need money, right? Like, unless we experience some [00:47:00] really big social and political changes, you're always gonna need money. And so you wanna be saving specifically for retirement via a workplace retirement plan, like a 401(k) or a 403(b) and/or an IRA. Um, outside of that, you can also invest in a brokerage account, and so that's gonna kind of form the bulk of your investment strategy, those accounts.
Secondarily, you need a healthcare proxy because, unfortunately for all of us, like as we age, most of our bodies get, uh, weaker, right? Like, get worse in most ways, our mobility changes and slows down. We may develop more health issues and I have Crohn's disease, which is an incurable chronic illness. So like, I know there's gonna be a lot of health complications in my future.
So if you are not in a position to make healthcare decisions for yourself, you need a healthcare proxy, which is someone that you give the [00:48:00] legal right to say, yes, Kara wants that medicine. No, Kara doesn't want that medicine if you're not capable of it. So like, if you're in a coma, or if you're just not found to be like, mentally able to make the right decision for yourself, your healthcare proxy will do that.
Even if you're 22 listening to this, I really strongly encourage you to start thinking about that person because what a lot of people don't understand is that you can become disabled or you can lose control of your body in an instant. You could be in a car accident tomorrow, you can develop a chronic illness. Like, bodies are very fragile. So healthcare proxy is a very important decision.
Outside of that step kind of three is creating a will. A lot of people think they don't need a will 'cause they don't have that much money, you know? But I always say like, even if the only thing you have is your iPhone 13 and a cat, like you need a will because who's gonna take care of your cat? You know, like, and even if you just have stuff that isn't particularly valuable. Where do you want that to go? Maybe something is [00:49:00] meaningful and or do you just want the city to come by and toss it all in a dump? Because that's what will happen if you don't have a will. So putting together a will, you can literally, wills are such funny pieces of legal documents. 'Cause you can literally write a will on the back of a napkin and that will be upheld in court. Like we haven't seen that happen. But you can also hire a lawyer or you can do one online. aAnd you can, you can make it yourself and just write out, you know, like, I want my Uncle Tony to get my car. I want my cousin Maria to get all the cash in my savings account, etc. etc.
You can also designate beneficiaries through your financial institutions. So a beneficiary is someone who will benefit, weird choice of words, from your passing. Um, so they will inherit your IRA, they will inherit your checking account. And you can do that on a credit union website, a bank account website, your investment accounts. So between your [00:50:00] will and your beneficiaries, you're gonna designate who gets what.
And then the last thing, and this is like a little bit kind of depending on your situation, is to find someone to be your power of attorney. So again, this is someone who can make legal decisions on your behalf if you're not capable. And, I will just share that, in my family, I had a family member who was in their older years, they experienced elder abuse from someone. And thank God, my family member had someone in our family who was power of attorney who could restrict the abuser's access to their bank accounts, restrict the user's access to their car and their home, because otherwise my family member would've been robbed blind in two weeks flat. So, making sure you have that because it's, I think a lot of people think too of like, well, I'm going to be fine, but you never know when someone else with ill intent can enter your life and start messing things up for you. So having these systems in place, the will, the power of attorney, the healthcare proxy, and your own [00:51:00] investments, they're just various levels of protection.
Cassidy: That is such sound advice.
For someone who's just getting started with investing but cares about environmental impact, where do they begin? Like you've mentioned earlier that sometime recently, you divested from companies that use their money to fund fossil fuel projects.
So what does that mean for someone who's just getting started?
Kara: So if you're thinking about investing more ethically, that to me says like, you have a budget. You're paying down debt. Maybe you're debt free, like you're pretty financially literate. If you're listening to this podcast and you're not feeling super confident about your finances, it's totally okay to not be the world's most ethical investor right now. You can get to it later. But, if you're like, no, I'm ready to make these decisions, the first thing I would do is look at what you're currently invested in. You know, like what do you already have? And a lot of you probably have funds. Funds are collections of companies. So you can have one fund that has [00:52:00] 400 companies in it, so you can go find out, um, what those 400 companies are, usually on like, you know, Vanguard, Fidelity, wherever you're doing the investing, they will have a website dedicated to that fund and a little pie chart that'll say like, oh, this is 22% energy, you know, 13%, consumables, whatever. And you can click on those pies to see here are the specific companies. So just familiarize yourself with what you're currently investing in and see what makes you uncomfortable.
Like for me, one of the companies that I haven't fully divested from, 'cause it's fricking everywhere, but I hate, is Nestle. Nestle is awful. They steal water, they're bad people. I hate Nestle, but it's in a ton of funds. And because it itself is not a fossil fuel company and it's a very profitable company, it's in a ton of funds that have excluded like, Chevron, etc. etc. Ugh. So I'm like, really trying to get away from them, but it's challenging. [00:53:00]
So I would say, like, look at what you got, and then pick a value that's important to you. Like for a lot of people in my audience, it's environmentalism, but it's also women. They wanna support women-owned companies. They want to encourage companies to hire more women and pay women fairly. So finding a value you want to express via your investments is really important. And I encourage you to pick just one. I have divested from fossil fuels. I invest in Amazon. It's a real freaking bummer for me. I like, and I'm currently invested in Nestle. That's also a real bummer for me, but it's because Amazon's a tech company. So when you're looking around at these funds, you know. They're like, hey, no, Exxon. Great. Oh, Amazon, wah wah wah. It's not perfect.
The stock market is an imperfect tool to express your values. So if you're looking for that one company out there that only ever goes up in the stock market and makes you a ton of money and is pro women and pro environment, and pro-labor, and pro all these things you care about, I [00:54:00] regret to inform you that company does not exist.
Instead, look at it through the lens of one of your values, and then in other areas of your life, try to express those other values that are important to you. So just to kind of give a little bit more clear example, I have divested from fossil fuels. Great. In other areas of my life. I try to support women-owned businesses 'cause I know in my investments, that's just not a priority. It's just not really happening with the funds that I have. So when it comes to Christmas time, I always try and buy a couple of gifts from women-owned businesses. I try to hire women for my own business every time I need like, a contractor, etc. etc. And I also try to keep my money really local. So I'm going to those farmer's markets. I'm going to the local hardware store. I'm getting my hair cut at a locally owned salon instead of at like, Clipper Cuts or whatever. And all of those decisions add up. ‘Cause I get my hair cut three times a year, right? or I need to go get vegetables every single week. So [00:55:00] you can express values in other areas of your life. It doesn't all have to be in your investment portfolio.
Cassidy: Yeah, I'm so glad you expanded on that. That's such a beautiful example of just working in, in the system. You know, like it's not gonna be perfect, but you are doing your best in other ways, and it's just a good reminder that just because you can't invest perfectly exactly how you want to, doesn't mean you can't invest at all.
Emily: To kind of round us out, we wanna hear a little bit more about Bravely Go, specifically what you're most proud of when you think about, like, your community that you've built there. And then I think since we're kind of getting to the end of the episode, if you wanna go ahead and like, share exciting things you're working on and like, anything our listeners might be interested in, go ahead and do that too.
Kara: Okay. Yeah, I think, you know, it's been seven years with Bravely Go, which sounds so bananas. And definitely the thing that is most meaningful to me is that I have people who were there from day [00:56:00] one still in my community and they're still really engaged. And that is just so flattering and such a good metric for me of, you're still doing well because it's very easy with these algorithms and doing something for a long time to fall into complacency or to get out of touch with what people want or need.
And so I'm really, really grateful for the people who are communicating with me regularly, so people who are in my DMs or commenting on posts or emailing me. And I'm really proud of that connection.
I'm also proud of my book. I really love my book and I, I feel like I really put my heart into it. And yeah, I think in terms of like, what's coming up, I'm starting a podcast. So, I don't know when this episode will be out, but my podcast will be out in early August, 2025. It's called Camp Money. So if you like what you hear here, come listen to me on Camp Money.
Cassidy: Yeah.
Kara: Um, yeah, [00:57:00] it's exciting. I used to have a podcast called The Fairer Sense, um, which was awesome and I loved, but I did with another person, much like you two are doing.
And so this is just me, which is like, a little scary, but a little exciting. And yeah, we'll see how it goes. It's a fun new adventure.
Emily: Can't wait to listen.
Cassidy: I know. I, I feel like you have such a like, captivating personality that you were, you were like, made to be your own podcast host, like to fly solo. Yeah. It's gonna be great.
Kara: Thank you.
Cassidy: Yeah. Okay. Kara, this has been so enlightening. You've given us a completely fresh way to think about how our money can reflect what we actually care about.
So before we let you go, is there anywhere else, anything you wanna plug? Instagram, YouTube, where people can find your book one last time.
Kara: Yes. You can find my book pretty much everywhere. You know, it's on Bookshop if you wanna buy Indie. It's also on Amazon. It's on Target. And um, like I said, you can request it from your library. Shout out the library. And then I'm [00:58:00] on social media at We Bravely Go. I know it's a little tricky. WeBravelyGo on Instagram, TikTok, Threads.
I'm no longer on Twitter. And then YouTube is actually just Bravely Go. No, we, but yeah, if you Google Kara Pérez, I'm gonna come up. I dominate those SEO results.
Cassidy: Yeah.
Emily: We'll be sure to include those links in our show notes as well. And definitely check out Money for Change if you wanna dive deeper into Kara's approach to finances. This has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us.
Kara: Thank you so much for having me. This was like such thoughtful questions and such a great show. Thank you.
